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Radiopopper testing
by: Matt
posted on Thursday, April 03, 2008 in Photographers  Kevin King  Matt Adcock  Sol Tamargo
I am very excited to see the birth of the Radiopopper this year. This write-up will serve as a initial preview of my experience with this revolutionary unit. In order to give a full review, I will need this baby on a few of my wedding gigs. I hope to be shooting with them at my first few weddings in April. We haven't used TTL at a wedding with off camera slaves in a long long time. Heck, I can't tell you when. I love to change up my game, so the popper is an exciting new tool in my tool box! We spent an hour or so the other day with these units. Ordinarily, Flashflavor photo subjects will be wedding related. I ask for your forgiveness with this post as we didnt have time to organize any test bridal models during the short term planning we did to organize this shoot. I spent some time with a few other photographers to get some play time with Radiopopper (RP). We each got a chance to set up a makeshift subject and shoot each one of these subjects to test the strengths of RP. We tested firing 3 different flash groups TTL using the 580 EX II as the master unit and 3 remote slaves all in different groups, set to different ratios. Group A, Group B, and Group C. I didn't actually do any test shots with these flash settings but hopefully, I can get a copy of the images from Stillmotion to showcase here. When it became my turn to play with the flash, we found our way inside Battista's Hole in the wall, a rustic Italian food joint with some serious history in Vegas. I wanted to add a little life to my test subject and on the spot, I found a cute little old guy who made a SLAM of a subject. Sorry to bother you with the details but I believe if you add a story line to a test subject, the impact of the lighting efforts actually make a lasting impression. Call me a dedicated photojournalist if you will :) In these photo examples, I used 3 flash unites in 2 different flash groups, Group A + Group B. (Remember, this is TTL folks). Group A 1:1 and Group B 1:4. We had 1 Radiopopper transmitter attached to the ST-E2 and 3 Radiopopper receivers attached to 580 EX II's. In this setup shot, I was shooting a Canon 5d with a ST-E2 wireless transmitter on the hotshoe . I had a RP attached to the top of the ST-E2. Group A was set to 1:1 and Group B was set to 1:4. Basically, I've told Group B to fire with 4 times more light than Group A. Group B's units are placed behind subject on bench and camera right. I dialed my exposure in so that the ambient would hang out. What impressed me most about this is that we were limited here with time, with little or no actual test time to get ti done right. I shot 5 or 6 frames in this spot in the restaurant and I liked his expression best in these few frames. The RP allows you to set it and forget it. If this had been a Pocket Wizard setup (i still love my PW's), I would have needed more time to set each unit up and get the job done. I took 5 minutes with this guy. With this kind of pressure, I'm starting to love the RP!

 

Here are my frames (all shot at ISO 400, 1/100th at 1.4) gordy1.jpg Gordie has been playing the accordion at Battista's for an outstanding 27 years. His listeners range from hookers and prostitutes to drunkards and party goers to the occasional superstars. His favorite musicians were the Oakridge boys! Batista's ceilings are adorned with props and the walls are covered with their menus and wine bottles and different photos from the past. Battista is filled with low lighting and a moody atmosphere. I wanted to take a chance to add some light that would accentuate the mood that was plastered all over the walls. gordy2.jpg gordy3.jpg I love how the backlight has added some dimension here. Remember, set it and forget it mentality.

 

Initially, when we choose a location in the restaurant to shoot Gordy, we found a spot that seemed perfect. After my first several frames, I had botched exposures and misfires. After expressing my concerns that something wasn't right, Kevin King (RP Creator), pointed at the link light on the side of the RP and noted that it was blinking, indicating that there was some type of interference. The moment I started to actually test this baby, I found a circumstance that actually challenged its performance. Apparently, the link light on the receiver unit that indicates it has a link with the other will stay a solid yellow upon its initial link up. After a fire, it will turn off and back on to indicate that it has linked up. If it intermittently blinks then it indicates interference. The receiving unit may or may not fire, depending on the circumstance. We walked literally 15 feet to another location in the restaurant and the problem went AWAY... hey, that was easy enough. Ok, so now I've found a problem on the first frame I've tried to expose. In all honesty, this inst my first experience with Interference while transmitting to a slave flash unit... On numerous occasions, I have been using pocket wizards and experienced some sort of interference where my slave units WOULD NOT FIRE. I can recall one specific wedding where Sol Tamargo & I were both trying to trigger our Pocket Wizards. We each have 5 pocket wizards and 4 or so Slaves, each. So thats 10 pocket wizards, 8 slave flashes. In the heat of the moment, we tested all of our PW's and slaves, traded sync cords, did just about anything possible to make it happen... NADA. There was some sort of interference going on and we could not nail it down. I'm not sure what went on as we never figured it out, but the point is that interference has happened to me before when using a device that transmits via radio signals. The bottom line is that I'm not too worried about this potential problem with the RP at this point. I'll need some more testing time to give you more thoughts on this. After my turn was up, Ed Pingol stepped up to the plate and took the RP's outside. He wanted to test the high speed sync abilities and used 2 slave units. I don't have any of the TTL settings at this point, but I do know that he used a ST-E2 on the hotshoe and 2 groups on the slaves, A & B. One unit was 3-4 feet away, camera right and the other unit was 6-8 feet away, camera left. I was a spectator :)

 

Camera: Canon EOS 40D | ST-E2 set to High Speed Sync Exposure: 1/8000 sec Aperture: f/2.8 ISO: 100 - Focal Length: 17 mm The model is my wife, Sol Tamargo :) edsol.jpg edsol2.jpg I'm loving the use of high speed sync with these RP units!

 

Well, for now, I'm going to close with those photos of my HOT wife...thanks Ed! Thanks Kevin for giving us a chance to play with your new toys! I look forward to working with these units at my next gig. I will be doing a writeup on what it is like to use the RP's in a live environment where the pressure is ON! Thoughts or comments about the TTL system and Radiopoppers innovative way to use Radio Signals.... please give us a shout or feel free to drop off your ideas. I'm really curious as to how many of FF's readers actually use Manual slave flash operation or TTL... Cheers! Mateo

 

**Update** I didnt have too much time when I originally wrote this post, so I've added one more image that showcases a long distance field test in "ideal conditions" meaning open range without any interference. In this photo example, i've added a field test shot at 300+ feet. I'm the spec off in the distance under the arrow holding the flash that is actually being triggered at that distance. We tried several frames where I would stick my hand in front of the antenna and some where Kevin would face the opposite direction to test if and when the slave would trigger. Anyway, here is the football field test... F3.5 1/4000 ISO 50 ST-E2 trigger on Camera. photo by Kevin King field-test.jpg and a zoom of this frame to see the slave being triggered. field-test-2.jpg

 

***Update 2*** I got a few frames from Stillmotion's tip top shooter, Amina Myriam Wojcik. We were all tag teaming along with the crew who was testing the RP's. Here are a few of her photos and her 2 cents... She shot these with a Canon 5d and a Tilt and Shift lens... She also has added a cool X-process flavor to her shots... Amina writes: At WPPI, I had a chance to check out the Radio Poppers. The group went on two shoots with them, one at a really cool restaurant called Battista's Hole in the Wall, and on in the desert just outside of Las Vegas. Because of the different shooting conditions, sometimes I was using one external flash, and sometimes more. I tested them at different ratios and groups, as well as channels and different levels of exposure compensation. I found that it was easiest to use the ST-E2 with the Radio Poppers, since the ratio controls are right on the back of the unit, and really easy to access. The 580 EXIIs are great for it too, but it takes a little longer to switch settings, so if you're in a time-crunching situation, be sure to have your "fit-in-your-pocket' ST-E2. The Radio Poppers worked at all settings reliably and allowed me to use high-speed sync in bright daylight without worrying about line of sight. It was awesome when I could light some guys playing hacky sack so easily. Now, focus was another issue! Ever tried shooting moving objects with a tilt-shift, at 2.8 in bright daylight with flashes behind your subjects? Not as easy as it sounds! But it was super fun, and we all got some awesome shots out of it sm0.jpg sm1.jpg sm21.jpg sm31.jpg Above four images credit: Stillmotion's tip top shooter, Amina Myriam Wojcik.

 

Thanks Amina & the still motion crew for your help!
45 comments for "Radiopopper testing"
Noah say's

A little clarification on Canon "Groups" after playing with my flashes for a bit... There are 3 groups each Slave can be set to, and all flashes in that group must have the same ratio/power. A Master flash will always be in the first group, but other Slaves can also be assigned to the first group as well. The Master flash can also be "silenced", so it only gives control light pulses and lets the Slaves do all the heavy lifting.
April 13th, 2008 6:35 pm
Noah say's

@Jeff - RP's can only extend the wireless TTL capabilities of the device you use as a "Master". I believe the problem is that you are using the ST-E2, which can only do flash ratios. Using a 580 (or similar) flash as the "Master" would allow you to manually adjust the ouput of the "Slaves" in groups (A = Master, B = Slave, C = Slave). For your setup, you'd need another flash that can do E-TTL manual Slave control to enjoy the full flexability of the RP's.
April 13th, 2008 5:56 pm
Jeff say's

i'm still confused between adjusting the "power" of the flashes via FEC on the camera, manual power on the slaves (1/1, 1/4, 1/8, etc). If I were to adj FEC on the camera, wouldn't it adjust all of the slaves power equally? I would like to manually adj the power of each slave....from the camera or master only. TTL is nice, but to me a bigger benefit is being able to shoot-chimp-adjust...without walking over to each slave to adj power between shots.
April 09th, 2008 7:52 pm
matt say's

Victor, I'm pretty sure they are for triggering slave flash units via TTL only. Jeff, you can adjust the power ratios between the groups but the flashes will always omit the same amount of light, just one group may have been set to deliver more of it than the other. BUT, you can use +/- flash comp on the camera body, which will result in increased flash power from your slaves. Its a whole different world of thinking.
April 07th, 2008 3:12 pm
Jeff say's

I shoot interiors only, primarily for real estate listings. Nick or someone else mentioned that a big advantage is being able to manually control the power of the slaves from the camera. Assuming I am using an Xti with ST-E2, 580EX, 420EX, and another 580EX...how can I manually control slave power? Can I do this with both the ST-E2 and 580EX? I was under the impression that only the lighting ratios (b/w groups) could be adjusted remotely, but not the power (1/8,1/4,etc) remotely. Thanks!
April 07th, 2008 2:58 pm
Victor say's

Can the radiopopper's be used to remote fire a camera like the PW?
April 06th, 2008 3:58 am
David E say's

I'm so excited, I may purchase the ST-E2 & a 580EX to try it out. If it's as good as advertised, it would be the ultimate Strobist setup.
April 04th, 2008 6:20 pm
Fabiano say's

Great review. It makes me wonder if it will be sent to Brazil anytime soon. Its a great tool. Very nice pics and review. Thanks a lot.
April 02nd, 2008 11:58 pm

oh man I have to find the time to read about this. I Think DWF is posting some type of sale for these units....
April 02nd, 2008 7:36 pm
Paul say's

Matt, Thanks for the info and the great write up. I was and still am very interested in these. Kevin and I talked a few months ago but he wasn't ready yet, and then I forgot about them, so thanks for the great reminder. How do you feel about them in reliability? Would you be comfortable leaving your Pw's home? I'm definitely gonna get a set but I'm gonna wait for version 2.
April 02nd, 2008 2:21 pm

That´s sad here in brazil we have to search for an importing store, and still hard to find it! Thanks for the review!"
April 01st, 2008 12:32 pm
Harry say's

Glad, so very glad, to see someone showing cool flash pix done with TTL. Not all of us are manual flash addicts out here! This site is bookmarked and at the top of my list.
March 28th, 2008 7:36 pm
Phil Monk say's

One more thought - I know TTL can be a concern with subjects because of the prefire, which causes some folks to blink. I believe this can be avoided with locking the TTL exposure after a test fire. I shoot D200, so not sure about Canon. You'll want to cover that base before going out to a live event.,
March 27th, 2008 3:22 pm
matt say's

Pam, The popper is Velcrowed to the top of the ST-E2. It doesnt plug into anything. Turn it on, and it syncs when the ST-E2 is triggered. FTJ, The RP's will cost in the neighborhood of the Pocket Wizard price. I'm guessing about $180 per unit (you will need minimally 2 for standard operation) plus your TTL flash system.
March 27th, 2008 3:08 pm
FTJ say's

I've been trying to view what the prices of radiopoppers are? Is this on the this site? b/c it's not on the radiopopper site? Are these more expensive than pocket wizards? are they cheaper than a ebay trigger?
March 27th, 2008 3:00 pm
Phil Monk say's

Great write up as usual, and great photographs as usual. I'll be keeping an eye out for your review of using RPs in real environment.
March 27th, 2008 2:41 pm
Christie Kaplan say's

Matt, Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions, it was greatly appreciated. I will definitely check out the additional link you provided. Cpt. C. Kaplan, RN USAR Bagdad
March 27th, 2008 2:00 pm

wow, what a great review. i love the images. i had to really stop and put things together. thank you very much. jason
March 27th, 2008 5:18 am

THank you for the answer Matt..think I get it. I also did post on flickr under strobist and got good answers. So you hook up the ST-E2 to the hotshoe and where do you put the popper? Does it then hook somewhere on the camera too? And...are the poppers for sale yet? Thanks again. Pam
March 27th, 2008 2:36 am
matt say's

Edward, My understanding is that A & B flashes will always give out the same amount of light when using the TTL if you don't add flash +/- comp on the camera body. Keeping that in consideration, the ratio simply lets you adjust which group will output more power than the other group. This ratio thing works when you shoot with 2 or more groups. Its only a ratio of power from one flash to another, yet keeping the same output regardless of the setting to achieve the TTL. heck, I think I'm talking in loops here.. Remember, I'm a manual flash guy and i'm just breaking ground on TTL. Ask this question in the strobist flickr group and get a WAY better technical response. http://www.flickr.com/groups/strobist/ Cheers! matt
March 27th, 2008 2:27 am

I'm trying to figure out how you calculated your flash ratio. I always thought 1:4 ratio meant 1/16th the amount of light (4 stops). Does the Canon calculate the ratio differently? What part of the frame is the 1:4 ratio? I haven't used this extensively and want to figure it out.
March 27th, 2008 2:00 am
matt say's

Cpt. Kaplan & Pamela, thanks for the note. In this case, the TTL we speak of is the automatic flash system that our cameras use to expose our subjects, and in this case we are doing it off camera with Canon speedlights. Canon allows us to uses a Infrared signal or a pulse to activate a remote slave unit whose light power is determined by the camera's decision to make what it thinks is a "good exposure". This system is really the camera guessing. I can either use the on camera 580 as the master unit or an ST-E2 as the master unit. Using this system, I can set ratios on 2 flashes in i'm using off camera in a hypothetical example. Call them Flash A and Flash B. If I set A to 1:1 and B to 1:4 that means that B will have a ratio of 4 times more strength than A. I'm trying to explain this in a basic manner so you can get the picture. There are limitations to the infrared system. Line of sight is usually one of them. This is why most of the pros go with the pocket wizards. The radiopoppers break the rules by allowing the infrared signal to be transmitted over a radio wave to the receiving unit, all using TTL exposure. All pro flash systems have a high speed sync setting that will allow you to go above the max normal sync speed, thus allowing the 1/8000th of a second exposure. BUT, you are limited to TTL operation with this. Manual flash users are limited here. Radiopoppers are giving us more options.. Also, if you want to get WAY better answers to questions like yours, drop them off at the strobist flickr group: http://www.flickr.com/groups/strobist/ Thanks all for the comments :) I hope everybody can be accommodated across seas soon! Cheers, matt
March 26th, 2008 11:18 pm

Thanks for the review. I am a bit confused though. How do they work with the ST-E2 in place? That is a whole seperate system. And if using the 580EX with a 20D...or any other canon for that matter...wouldn't you still synch at the 1/250 and no more...how does it allow for the sync at 1/8000th? Thanks....I am a huge fan of having such control of the ambient like that. Pam
March 26th, 2008 10:10 pm
Fabiano say's

this is awesome. it sets new standards to what can be done with slave flashes now...i cant wait to see this spreading around the world and getting one to myself...in Brazil...it may took some time though.
March 26th, 2008 9:43 pm

Hi Matt, Thanks for a great review. The idea of controlling slaves from the camera in a non-line of sight enviroment is awesome!!! Can't wait to get some of these units over here in the UK. GREAT site by the way :o) All the best, Glyn
March 26th, 2008 6:55 pm
Nas say's

Matt, Thanks for the review. Do you have any plans to test the RP Jr's? Cheers Nas
March 26th, 2008 4:32 pm
Christie Kaplan say's

I'm totally lost here....I know that TTL stands for Through The Lens, and I do not want to really sound like a complete idiot....but when I see things like 1:1 and 1:4 I am clueless what you are talking about....including "dial in exposure". Any help or direction would be appreciated.....even pointing me to some other appropriate sites to educate myself during our downtime. Cpt. C. Kaplan, RN USAR Bagdad
March 26th, 2008 2:27 pm
matt say's

Pat, The reason I'm so excited about TTL is because I've never used it. The RP gives me the ability to try my game from an entire different perspective. To me, this is a fresh and exciting approach. I just like to add tools to the toolbox, the RP is going in mine. Lomoseb, I've never used an Ebay trigger, sorry no clue about banding...
March 26th, 2008 11:35 am
lomoseb say's

Hi Thanks for the test. Did you not notice some banding interferences as the ebay trigger can produce on 5D ? On top horizontal side of the frame ? Thanks again
March 26th, 2008 11:12 am
pat say's

Great review but don't understand why everyone is suddenly compelled to use TTL? I only tried a remote flash test last night with 430EX and ST-E2 and was able to use high-speed sync with flash in manual mode. So I assume this will still work with Radio Poppers...? I'm anxiously watching reviews from the other side of the Atlantic but for me I see the advantages being: 1. Working at greater distances - reliably 2. No need to worry about line of sight with IR 3. High sync capability 4. TTL will work as before except for the advantages of 1 & 2.
March 26th, 2008 10:31 am
Gromitch say's

Thanks for information :)
March 26th, 2008 8:28 am
matt say's

Clayton, The Radiopopper is what is sending the ST-E2's signal over a radio wave. http://www.radiopopper.com/blog/?p=12 I recommend doing a bit of browsing on RP's home site do understand what is going on here... Good luck, Matt
March 25th, 2008 12:59 pm
Clayton say's

I am tad bit confused when you said you were using the STE2 and the RP's. This may be to much to ask but could you possibly post some pictures that will help visualize your set ups. I was under the impression that the STE2 could only go with in 32 feet out doors.
March 25th, 2008 6:12 am
Herbertuu say's

favorited this one, guy
March 24th, 2008 4:58 pm

I can't wait to get my hands on a couple of these bad boys. Thanks Matt for the demo and write up. I too think my favorite part is the high speed sync action! It was great seeing you at WPPI. Talk soon, Adam
March 24th, 2008 2:54 pm
matt say's

The high speed sync makes this whole TTL thing very enticing. Nick, you are SO correct that one of the RP's best advantages is that you can adjust the power setting from the mast unit or by using the +/- flash compensation on the camera. This is a beautiful thing :) ALL of our slave Nikon SB28's are too old and too nikon for my Canon TTL :) Yes, we will be making an investment to make this system work fully. For hacking the sync speed on the camera using the PW's and manual operation, read into this strobist article: http://strobist.blogspot.com/2007/05/hacking-your-cameras-sync-speed-pt-1.html and part II: http://strobist.blogspot.com/2007/06/hacking-your-cameras-sync-speed-pt-2.html Hopefully, i'll have them in my hands ASAP to learn tha ction of these units at an actual wedding environment. Cheers & thanks for commenting
March 24th, 2008 1:47 pm

Thanks for a great review Matt. I don't know why but hearing you had the odd issues actually makes me feel a more confident about the units. It's probably down to them no longer seeming too good to be true! I also just noticed RadioPoppers has linked to this review, though I'm a long term FF reader, so it's also good that they are being open. Now if only I knew when I'd bea ble to get hold of some in the UK.
March 24th, 2008 11:06 am
Rodbotic say's

Manual, my flashes are too old for TTL
March 24th, 2008 5:26 am

I love the high speed sync. ... It opens a whole new avenue of professional photography. Now we many more choices of aperture and shutter speed. ... Thanks for the good review, and including all your shots, as well as a couple of Ed Pingol's shots. The two types of shots illustrated two aspects of the RP tools that are coming our way.
March 24th, 2008 12:27 am
Nick say's

I think one of the biggest and most overlooked advantages to the radiopoppers is that you can control the output of each of your slaves manually if you still wish to (as I do), but you can do it from your camera instead of walking over to each one (if you are transmitting with a 550 or 580 for instance). You don't have to use TTL for these to be more versatile than PWs. The way I see it, I'm going to use these radiopoppers just as I would PWs, but with the added benefit of not having to walk over to each slave to change the output. I can do it right from my camera-mounted 550ex with its own output turned off.
March 24th, 2008 12:20 am
John say's

The high speed sync shots looked great and certainly made a decent case for the radiopopper units. Is there any way to achieve similar results with pocket wizards and the 5D?
March 23rd, 2008 10:37 am
Luis Cruz say's

I'm pretty comfortable with the manual mode on my flashes, so the TTL function doesn't excite me that much. The idea of cutting down setup times is nice, but what really excites me is the high-speed sync. I bet you (or Ed, for that matter) couldn't get those shots of your wife with your PWs unless you waited until the twilight hours.
March 23rd, 2008 12:48 am

I still can't get consistent results with TTL flash, though a lot of the time I'm combating fast moving subjects and strobed lighting... Still I might pick up a set of these, even though it would mean replacing my trusty SB28s...
March 23rd, 2008 12:24 am
Nick say's

Waiting to see the reliability of firing at a live wedding, then I may bite. Manual has just become so second nature to me though.
March 22nd, 2008 10:51 pm
Erik say's

Thanks for the great review. I was excited about these before I read this, but now I am going crazy till I can get a set of my own. Great shots!
March 22nd, 2008 10:32 pm
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